(Marvette Pérez: Today is October 16, 1997. This is Marvette Pérez interviewing Celia Cruz
as a supplement to the previous oral history project interview.) MP: Celia, this important donation that you’ve made to the
museum today, the bata cubana that
you wore at Carnegie Hall, the shoes and the wig … for us it’s important
to document history, not only the history of music and of musicians
but also the aesthetic of people, in particular of singers … their
aesthetic sensibility, how they present themselves on stage and the
kind of outfits they wear and why. I’d
like you to talk about why the bata cubana was so important in your career,
especially once you came to the United States. Celia Cruz: OK, well, I wore it in Cuba of course, usually
when I’d do theater shows when … well, wearing it in Cuba isn’t really
that significant since inside of Cuba any singer might wear it. It became important for me to wear it when
I was in the United States and also out of the U.S. in places like
Puerto Rico, Argentina, Peru, and Colombia doing shows in theaters
and dances, which is where I performed mostly, since a bata that
was very, well, big, with a lot of fabric wasn’t really useful since
it was a small band…with a lot of cords on stage. But the bata was important, it always was since we wanted to show the world
that we had, that our music was culture, that we have like, for example,
the Mexicans who have their mariachi outfits, we also have the bata cubana. We have several
kinds, the one I use, which is for singers; the one used by rumba dancers that looks kind of like
mine but short in the front since they have to show off their legs,
and there’s another one for dancing danzón that’s
rounded and has no train. But
for me, the most important one is the one I wear, or rather that I
used to wear since I don’t wear it much anymore, since I wanted to
show people that we had something very special to show the audience,
and let me tell you, people have always been drawn to the bata
cubana. MP: Could you talk a little bit about the first time you
wore a bata cubana in the
United States, about who made it for you and how you found it? CC: Well, that bata was made by a man named Enrique Arteaga
and I wore it for the first time in I’d say. I came to the United States
in [19]57 when I came to pick up my first gold record and if I recall
correctly, I wore it in the Teatro Puerto Rico. By
1960, when I’d moved here, I put it on for the first time in Carnegie
Hall; that’s another detail I just remembered. I
put it on at the Teatro Puerto Rico in 1957 and then later in 1960,
when I came to live in the US in [19]60, [19]61 I put it on for the
first time in Carnegie Hall. MP: And the bata that
you wore at the Teatro Puerto Rico in [19]57 was also made by Enrique
Arteaga? CC: No. That one was made in Cuba by a
man named Pepito. He, well,
moved to the United States and died here. That
one was made by Pepito in Cuba, though. MP: What kind of reaction did you get in Carnegie Hall with
that outfit? CC: Well, let me tell you that people had already seen me
wearing that kind of outfit, of a different color, but they’d seen
me. And it always made a good impression, especially
on Americans. Since if you’ve got an audience of Spaniards they’re
not going to be especially interested in it since, personally, I think
that it’s a copy of the Spanish bata. MP: OK. CC: Yep. MP: Could you talk a little about the shoes and why you
started wearing this kind of shoe, which is so unique to you? CC: Well, the shoes I bought in Mexico around [19]60 when
I left Cuba; I went straight to Mexico … around then people were telling
me about a shoe store on the Calle de Insurgentes and, as all my friends
know, I love shoes. I showed
up there looking to buy shoes, and I bought some everyday shoes but
I also found that they’d made these which I bought for my shows since
they have such a lift. I’ve worn them all morning but I have to keep
taking sitting breaks. I couldn’t have been here on my feet all these
hours with these on. So I started
wearing them and I liked them because they are comfortable to wear
when you’re on stage, especially when you get on a stage with bad flooring
like with holes in the wood; with these shoes I have no problem. As
time went on, I noticed that some Mexican performers had these shoes
made for them, but apparently regretted it, it seems, you know?! (MP
laughs.) So the only entertainer
that was left ordering the shoes was me, which means that before they
sold for $150 but after people stopped buying them the maker charged
me for custom orders since then he had to make the shoe for my foot,
he had to shape it for just me, buy the materials, so the price went
up for the shoes but I was happy about it since I’m the only one wearing
them so far. I’ve been wearing
them for 37 years and everywhere I go, people are dazzled by them. People
have told me that there are other shoes just like them, but no. Similar maybe, because I owned a pair, but
these we made by Nieto just for me. MP: Could you talk about Nieto, about all the years he spent
making you shoes? CC: Sure. MP: About your relationship with him? CC: Sure, well, he was a great person; I hope he’s still
alive. Nieto is a wonderful
person and I used to order shoes from him even when I wasn’t in Mexico. For example, I’d have a red dress made for
me and then I’d need a pair of shoes and since he had my shoe size
and since he’d bought the materials knowing I was going to buy shoes,
I’d call and say “Nieto, I need 2 white pairs.” And
he’d make them in white satin and a girlfriend of mine in Mexico, called Álvara,
would bring them to New York since she traveled a lot. And
so she’d take them to New York and for that reason I still have some,
even after the shoe store and the maker disappeared. I don’t know where Nieto is now, but I still
make do with these. A little
while ago I needed to paint a pair for a blue outfit and since they
were a pale lilac I just painted them so they still serve me well. MP: Are you looking for somebody to make you those shoes? CC: Listen, I was on a Mexican program that’s called the
Verónica Castro show… MP: Yes. CC: …the same thing, since the shoes still cause a commotion
in Mexico. A lot of people,
well more like 4 people, talked to me on the phone, that they could
make them, but I didn’t try. The
only person who told me they could get the shoe told me that they don’t
make it anymore; apparently he used to make them, but without Nieto’s
consent. MP: Interesting. CC: You know it could cause a lawsuit so he said no, that
he didn’t make them anymore. So
I have them and right now I’m wearing a black pair – the only pair
I own; imagine if I can’t get anybody to make them for me. MP: (Laughing.) What
will you do? CC: I’ll have to paint another pair I have. But I still have other, I do. MP: And could you talk to me about the use of wigs onstage,
in concerts, and at shows? CC: Well, look, I’ve been using wigs since I came to the
United Status. First of all,
in Cuba, they weren’t that popular and besides, on top of not being
that popular I was embarrassed to wear them because everybody was going
to notice that it wasn’t my real hair. In
any case…. MP: Why was it so embarrassing in Cuba? CC: Well, not everybody wore it; today anybody will wear
a wig, so I, even though I don’t like to be like everybody else, and
nowadays it doesn’t bother me, I mean I just came out in a magazine
wearing eight or nine wigs. I’m
happy that people ask me about my wigs, but it used to embarrass me. I
was always very …I had, well when I worked at the Tropicana somebody
sold me one and I put it away and then I came, I left Cuba and the
wig stayed there; I don’t know whatever happened to it. Anyway,
now I have a girl who does my hair, her name is Ruth Sanchez and she
gives me different hairdos with the wigs; she can also dye them any
color…. MP: And this hairdresser is in New York? CC: She lives in New York. MP: And she was the one who combed the wig that you donated? CC: She was the one who combed it…. MP: Great. CC: Yes, exactly. Of
course, I had to leave but I’m sure if I had stayed she’d be doing
something else with my head, you know? Like
I was saying, I just came out in a magazine where they had me wearing
about around nine, really pretty…. MP: And how…? CC: Well she’s given me various colors to wear; she’s given
me red‑no red that’s not true—she’s given me lilac, she’s given
me blue, she really likes me to wear white ones, which I don’t like,
but anyhow, she likes white ones … gold, brown, light brown, red, not
tomato red but more like a brunette, which I’ve been called been before. And
I like them all except for the white ones. I like it in person but
not in photographs. It doesn’t
really…. MP: But you look great in person. CC: Yeah, it looks good, it looks good. MP: Um, could you talk a little about the relationship between
aesthetics and performance, and the use of your very particular outfits,
shoes, your wig, and the connection between all that and the music
you sing? CC: Well, listen, I don’t pick an outfit according to, according
to what I’m going to sing. For
instance, when I’m going to a theater like Carnegie Hall, Radio City
Music Hall, um, a little while ago I did a show at the Jackie Gleason
Theater with the Florida Symphony Orchestra, where I wore a bata. So, in places like that it’s worthwhile
wearing it because you stand out, right? And
if I’m going to do a concert with the philharmonic or a symphony orchestra,
as the case may be, I know I’m going to sing some slow, pretty Afro
Cuban number, where I can move my body, the train of my dress, and
walk across the stage and put on a show, and all that. Nowadays
though, I dress like any other singer except that yes, I do like to
wear a lot of glitter. MP: Aha... CC: I love glitter and shiny colors, too. There are those who say that bright colors
make you look youthful. I don’t
do it for that; I do it because I like it. Even
when I’m 90 years old, if I’m still singing I’m still going to wear
bright colors. Even if people
criticize, right? MP: I’d imagine so. CC: Yep … so my clothes have nothing to do with what I’m
singing. If I like a dress,
I’ll wear it. The bata is the exception, which I’ll wear for a serious concert where
people are really watching me instead dancing. That’s
when I’ll wear the bata. MP: Over the course of your career, so many years in Cuba
and other countries… CC: Overseas... MP: …overseas, um, do you see any connection between the
Latino aesthetic onstage, at concerts, and in relation to, for example,
Americans or other performers? CC: Well, let me tell you something, a lot of Americans‘and
I hope that whoever is listening forgives me—dress very poorly, really
poorly. No way; I’ve seen people with a tuxedo jacket, jeans, and then a pair
of sneakers. It seem to me that … and the bands, the orchestras even,
dress very badly, so in my opinion the audience deserves respect and
let me tell you, personally, it hurts or rather, it would really hurt
me since it’s never happened, for me to be on stage and for me to see
someone in the balcony dressed better than me or even who stood out
more than me. MP: Really… CC: Well because generally a person…
I remember when I was in Cuba, when for example you had a teacher,
and there used to be teachers who dressed very well, they’d dress really
nice, with a hat and all, or there’d be someone in the street and you’d
say, “wow, they really look like an artist.” Meaning
that even if we are all equal, people put artists on a bit of a pedestal. MP: Sure. CC: So it’s not right that you
perform somewhere where they are charging money, any amount, and you
go worse dressed than the people who come to see you. I’m
very critical of that. As an
example, I’d use Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Dean Martin and a couple
others, who always come, or rather who came onstage impeccably dressed. Frank Sinatra would come out impeccably dressed
with his tuxedo and after three of four numbers, if he’d sweat, he’d
rip off his bowtie. The first photo they’d take, they’d take ahead
of time. I think that should
be emulated. I think that the audience must be respected. If
there’s anything I’ve earned from my audience and my fans it’s that
– respect. I’ve always tried to change costumes, I’ve
always tried to come on stage dressed perfectly; now, the girl who
travels with me does my hair and makeup. I
think that the audience deserves it, that you show them respect starting
right there, even before. You
have to show up on time, not that the show starts at one and you arrive
at two…. MP: That looks really bad. CC: All that, even if people don’t
believe it, the audience notices it; that’s why a lot of artists don’t
last what as long as I’ve lasted. You
know what I mean? That’s why
people are so interested, “oh look at the shoes, look how she came
out, look at all the wigs she’s got.” All
that’s lovely and I think that artists, especially Latinos, need to
respect it. Not all, there are some who dress really well
who come out flawlessly. But
there are others, my dear, who come out, that if I had my own orchestra,
whoever wore sneakers, I’d kick him out. (Laughing.) Honest! Anyhow, in
my case, I don’t have my own orchestra, and to have a poorly dressed
one backing me, me, elegant in the front with all those sequins; Pedro,
my husband, couldn’t possibly come onstage with any old suit. He comes out with his nice jacket or a tuxedo
because he needs to be on par with me. And
so for the people backing me to not wear any socks, and not…. (Laughing.) MP: But at the same time, you’re known not just for your
elegance… CC: Thanks. MP: And how well you dress, and the respect you show the
audiences in that respect… CC: Yes. MP: …but also because of the manner in which you dress,
your combination of all these elements… CC: Yes… MP: Are very particular… CC: Yes… MP: …to you, and I’d like for you to talk a little about,
in other words, if you see that uniqueness and how would you contrast
it with other singers or other styles since you know how unique your
look is. CC: Well, listen, you know that to each his own. There are a lot of folks who don’t care if
a performer wears shoes or not, right? There
was a lady named Pearl,
Pearl Bailey… MP: Pearl Bailey. CC: Pearl Bailey would come out elegantly dressed and in
the middle of the show she’d take her shoes off and you know, she looked
lovely. People were delighted
when she’d take off her shoes and put them to the side. Everyone’s got their own
style. And you want me to tell
you something? I’ve never heard
anybody criticize that, it’s me who is critical of it because that’s
how I am, that’s how I think that the public should be, should be given
a kind of priority. Today tickets are worth five dollars, people
are paying sixty, seventy, eighty-five, fifteen hundred, you know? I think, well as an example, a little while
ago a kid, over the phone, I’m not sure if it was a child or somebody
older because you know some people over the phone have a very young-sounding
voice, this is while I was in Venezuela, asked me why I wore so many
sequins and so much glitter. And
I said that if I didn’t shine, the outfit wouldn’t shine. (They laugh.) Honest! Of course, it was a silly question; people
dress however they want, right? MP: Sure. CC: On stage though, for shows, I think that you need to
come out like the public deserves and according, really to their expectations. In the end you realize that yeah, it sets you
apart, you know, “look at the singer, yeah sure, sure, but I like him
because he has a great voice or whatever.” MP: Were you influenced by any female singers with an aesthetic
similar to yours? CC: No, not at all. I’ve
always liked it this way. Look,
the first bata that I had
made for me, not that ones I’d rented from those places before, but
that first one I had made, that bata in
those days cost $42. MP: Wow. CC: And I was earning $21 a week, so I’d be broke paying
for them but I wanted to come out looking good. You know what I’m saying? So
that’s me. Nobody taught me to be that way,
or anything. And so, when I
was able to do it, I started ordering clothes, and clothes, and clothes,
and clothes so I wouldn’t have to repeat outfits. MP: But this was nobody’s influence but your own. CC: Nobody’s, nobody’s. MP: It was your own sense of style… CC: Nobody but own. MP: So that… CC: That’s how I liked it. MP: But you had to have had some
special connection with the audience in order to know that they were
receptive to that… CC: Nope. None at all. MP: It was just something you
had. CC: Something I had. MP: Because it is very particular
to you, as I’m sure you know. CC: Yeah, that’s just something
in me, to like changing clothes. Imagine,
when I was really young, I’d go to dances, they were called giras in Cuba, that were those dances
held on, for example, October 10th, which is a national
holiday, the 20th of May, a national holiday, so they’d
have these giras from noon to five in the Cuban beer
gardens and every time I went to one I’d wear a different outfit. So my little girlfriends would wear – on loan
- whatever I’d already worn because I was not going to repeat my outfit. (MP,
laughing.) So that’s
always been my nature. Always
been my nature. MP: And what, for example, do
you think about singers like Albita, about the evolution of her wardrobe
and the different successes she’d had during the course of…? CC: Yeah, sure, I think that she,
she’s also one of those who comes out without their shoes on. I’ve seen her a few times and her way of dressing
is pretty different than mine, wouldn’t you say? She’s more, she hardly wears dresses, she wears
pants and all that, and she, even when it’s an up-tempo song … well
she’s does more of a son thing. MP: Uh-huh, sure… CC: You know, more of a sonera. But
anyway, the audience, has, has had an affect on her style of, maybe
her style of dressing, I don’t know, but it has affected her act. MP: A lot of articles have come
out about… CC: Yeah, yeah. MP: But now she’s changing. CC: Yeah, right? MP: She’s wearing more dresses,
and… CC: Yeah. MP: And her aesthetic is changing. CC: Ah. MP: And I’m asking because
there are a lot of artists whose style changes considerably, but you’ve
stayed more or less, I mean you have a lot of wardrobe changes, but
your style remains pretty stable. CC: Sure, sure, sure. Very stable, it’s true. Anyhow, silly, look, when I started, I was
very slim, truly slim and I could wear whatever I’d find in the store. Today, I need to have clothes made for me. I
can’t say that I’m just going to wear something; I need to have it
made to my size because I’ve gained weight, weight that I can’t lose
just like that. MP: You look great. CC: Because my … would
suffer. MP: Your throat… CC: My vocal cords…and
people have never been demanding about my weight, or my figure, or
my face, or my body or anything of the sort. What
interests people about Celia Cruz are her vocal cords and that’s what
I take care of. MP: And a lot of other
things too. CC: Yeah! (Laughing.) MP: For sure. CC: OK. MP: Could you talk to me
about how, over the years, gaining weight has affected you, and about
how, um, well, getting older and having…? CC: Well, the years don’t
really worry me because luckily, I have old records at home and I’ve
noticed that my voice hasn’t changed much… MP: No, it hasn’t changed… CC: It hasn’t changed much
– a little deeper since I’m older – but I can tell you that I sing Yerbero Moderno in the same key that I
recorded it in the [19]50s… MP: Wow. CC: I sing Burundanga in a higher key than when I
recorded it. But a lot of numbers
from, from the era with the Sonora [Matancera] and from the era with
Pacheco around 74, like Quimbara, Toro Mata, all those I sing in the same
key. So basically, I’m not worried
about my voice. Weight, I’m
not too worried about losing weight because I know that a lot of singers,
like for example Mario Lanza, when they made him lose weight for a
movie, and they were paying ten million I think, poor guy, he lost
the weight but he died. MP: And Pavarotti too. CC: They were making Pavarotti
lose weight too, right? MP: No, but imagine, maybe
if he lost weight his voice would go too. CC: Maria Calas, remember
they said that she took a pill with a tapeworm in it so that she could
lose weight but when she did, her voice was not that same. (MP, laughs.) So
as long as the public doesn’t mention it, and I have gained a lot of
weight…. I’d see myself on TV; I’d go to Puerto Rico; I used to do
a lot of TV in Puerto Rico, Noche
de Gala and all that… MP: Sure… CC: And when I’d see myself,
oh my God, good Lord; but that’s me seeing it, nobody told me, “Celia,
you’ve gotten fat.” MP: No way… CC: Not even, “Celia, lose
some weight,” nothing. So all
that helps. It helps me not
to worry. However, that doesn’t mean that I want to get
huge, so that I look bad, right? So,
that said, if I gain weight, because I don’t … you know food’s what’s
fattening… MP: Of course… CC: Pero los artistas nos enfermamos como cualquier hijo
de vecino y allá en el medio que tú dices, como me hizo uno en Miami,
pobrecito que se lo agradezco, estábamos 30 de diciembre y yo trabajaba
el 31, y yo estaba fónica y él me dijo no, tienes que cantar, puá,
me puso cortisona, y la cortisona te tiene cinco años aumentando de
peso. And artists get sick like
anybody else… And like what happened to
me in Miami, poor guy, I appreciate it, it was the 30th of
December and I was working on the 31st, and I couldn’t sing
and he said, “no, you have to sing” – zap! – He gave me some cortisone,
and cortisone makes you gain weight for like five years. Avoid
salt; personally I love salt, but if you keep eating it you’re all
the worse. You know, a lot of
artists—myself, and also folks from Hollywood,—don’t want to get fat
but if they get sick and they need to work, they need to get healthy. So when I’m there, and there’ve been a number
of occasions where I’ve been pretty heavy, I have close fitting dresses
made for me, like caftans which are always in style… MP: And you always look good… CC: You know what I mean? It
always looks good. You know, I always work things out. Look at her laughing… (She laughs.) Now listen, I don’t want anybody making me
a really tight outfit…. MP: Uh-huh. CC: Well, I don’t want my
fat rolls to show…. (They laugh.) MP: You… CC: No, no mijita, entonces todos, al caer, chaquetas como esta, ¿te
das cuenta? No way, honey. So all of them, are jackets like this one,
know what I mean? MP: Was there any time in
particular—during one of your performances, that is—that has any special
significance for you, having to do with your outfit and your relationship
with the audience? Some moment
where someone has been wowed by what you were wearing? some incident…? CC: Let me tell you that the batas have always attracted a lot of attention. And
in Mexico! I was
in Mexico in 1957. It was when
I first broke through with a bolero called Tu Voz. Back
then I worked at a spot called El
Afro. And I´d wear the Cuban bata that´s on the cover of a record called La
Tierna, Conmovelo…, Tierna, Conmovedora, y Bamboleadora Celia Cruz. And
can you believe that the owner of the place whose name was, or rather
is Agustín Barrio Gómez, wouldn´t let me take off the bata? MP: No! CC: Every day I had to come out. “No, you have to wear it because Agustín Lara
is coming today. Look, you have
to wear it because my uncle is coming today.” And
he wouldn´t let me take it off. MP: The same one every day? CC: Every day the same one, the same bata. MP: And how did everybody react? CC: Well they … the problem is, anyway the same people don’t
go every day, it was them, the company… MP: Yeah… CC: Who’d say, “no, no, no, she’s got to wear the bata.” And
I’d be about to come down the stairs with a dress on and they’d say,
“no, no, no, she’s got to wear the bata.” (They
laugh.) Because I’ve always looked
good in batas. And I’ve had some really beautiful ones made
for me. As for the rest, no;
nowadays I dress like anybody else. Whichever
dress I like. right now I’m having a coat made for me, uh, from a material
that’s really in style right now, like a zebra print in black and white. I saw it in this magazine that I like so I’m
having it made… MP: Great. CC: So you see, there’s not so much of a reaction unless
I put on a bata. I mean, some dresses do make an impact: “Celia,
that’s so beautiful.” But it’s
when I wear a bata that people
really pay attention. MP: And that bata with
the Cuban flag? What’s the story
of that bata? CC: Well, I was going to work, almost always on May 20th,
which is Independence Day for my Cuba, from before. In Miami they have a celebration in Bayfront
Park. So, two years in a row,
I had it made, and since it’s for Independence Day I had it made like
the Cuban flag. And I’ve got
two. I was already thinking since we’ve been talking
to see about sending you one. MP: I’d love it. CC: Yes, but it was only for that. Because also I don’t like … you know, it’s
my flag and I don’t need drag it out for anybody. But
since I know that a lot of Cubans go there I put it on. MP: But you’ve never worn it onstage. CC: Well, uh, I did wear it last year when I worked at Lehman
College; I put it on. MP: Sure, in New York. CC: Yeah, in Nueva York. MP: And what was people’s reaction there. CC: Well, I don’t know, I got the same applause as always. But
I don’t know if it was for the bata. MP: Well because when I saw the photo in a Latin magazine… CC: Yes. MP: It really moved me. CC: Yes. MP: It was quite spectacular. CC: Well, that was called, “A Woman” or “The Woman and her
Music”. The applause I received
at the time was incredible, thank God, and I can’t tell you if it was
related to the bata since there weren’t only Cubans there. When
I come out with the bata generally it’s for the public that
I know is there who are Cubans. But,
on this occasion at Lehman College, which has an incredible stage,
I was going with Rogelio from the Sonora Matancera, and so, I thought
I’m going to wear the bata. You
see? And it always attracts
attention however, I’d be lying if I told you that the first applause
was for the bata, because
I was here and they were there. (She
laughs.) MP: But the bata doesn’t stand alone. It’s not the same to see it on its own as it
is when you wear it. CC: That’s true… MP: It’s the ensemble of everything… CC: Sure… MP: And the bata doesn’t
just inspire or make an impact on Cubans… CC: Of course. No,
no, I know it doesn’t… MP: Other people too. CC: It doesn’t just make an impact on Cubans, other people
too; it’s true. That’s why I’m
telling you that when I left Cuba it was more important for me to wear
it than to wear it inside of Cuba because any dancer, any singer on
television would wear a bata. But
outside, it’s a different audience that was going to see me. MP: And about your relationship
with Tito Puente, because Tito Puente has a very unique way of acting
and playing and being on stage. He,
he also has a very special way of expressing himself there… CC: Yes. MP: On top of it, he’s also very
elegant. CC: Tito, well, Tito and I have
a friendship that’s like brother and sister, it’s true. And I’d say that, despite me having started
with Sonora Matancera and having worked with them from 1950 till 1965,
I’m sure that I’ve worked more times with Tito Puente than with any
other orchestra. MP: You’re kidding… CC: So Tito Puente, first off,
I admire him, I admire him because he is a great musician, he’s a great
human being, and he’s a fan of mine too. When
I arrived in the United States, Tito had four of the songs that I sung
in his repertoire. So much that
when I’d go the Palladium to rehearse with him, “Caramelito” and all
that, there was once somebody in the booth who said, “hey, it’s all
Tito Puente songs.” And he told him, “no, I play all of her numbers.” So,
um, I admire him in another very personal way. Tito
Puente, who like you said had his way of acting and all is to me a
gentleman on stage. I sing with Tito Puente; Tito Puente, when
I finish, applauds me. Tito
Puente would never come up front to make a spectacle and steal the
show from me. You know what I’m saying? The only thing he does, once he knows I’ve
finished my performance, which, during which of course we’re in contact,
even though Pedro directs me, and he loves it that Pedro directs me,
and he stays behind. And then,
he leaves his drumsticks on top of the timbal,
he gives me his hand and then he leads me, we, the two of us, walk
across the stage. That’s all
Tito does … as for the rest he is an absolute gentleman and I give
my respect to the maestro Tito Puente. MP: Do you think that his stage
manner has to do with, rather, is more common among people of your
generation and Tito’s generation, than among the younger folks who
are playing Latin music nowadays or do you think that…? CC: No, it’s that the folks who
nowadays are playing Latin music generally don’t accompany artists
like me, soloists, they have their show, and they, well, and they never
work with, the only one from the new generation who I work with… MP: José Alberto… CC: Is José Alberto “El Canario.” MP: Who is very good. CC: Who also is very good and
who I love a lot because he helps me a lot. For
example, on Saturday we’re going to Houston; right now, I’m certain
that today, today is Thursday, Thursday right? Tomorrow,
José Alberto will be rehearsing my numbers. When I get there, he’ll say, “Miss Celia, whatever
you want, it’s all ready.” He
does his performance and afterwards he’ll take off the shirt that he
got sweaty, put on another one, and he’ll keep singing with me. You see what I’m saying? But the other groups, generally, they do their
show, I can’t tell you what they’re like, because I’ve never performed
with any of them. And I imagine
that, I don’t know, I don’t know. Maybe
they’d be different than with other people because of how I am, how
I approach groups like José Alberto, like the one who accompany me. I put on my music; if I see that one number
is a problem I say, “Pedro, get rid of that one and put on another.” That’s why I have such a big repertory. If, let’s suppose a musician makes a mistake,
I would never make a bad gesture, because I make … the musician makes
a mistake, I make a bad gesture and it’s possible that due to my gesture,
the audience realizes that he made a mistake. If
I don’t make the gesture, maybe the audience won’t even know that he…. MP: They almost never notice… CC: No, no, they don’t notice. And that’s why the audience, rather, the musicians
almost all want to work with me because I, rather they, feel happy
to perform with me. Some weren’t even born when I started. “Ma’am, this is so huge for me. When
I was little I always dreamed of…” you know what I’m saying? MP: And with whom, uh, with which
orchestras do you sing with other than Canario’s? CC: Tito, el Canario, when I go
to Miami there’s a group called “la Inmensidad” who have my music
there for when I go, which I have to avoid sometimes because the airfare
is too expensive. I have a group
in Miami “la Inmensidad”… MP: So… CC: In Spain there’s one called
“Canayón”, now renamed “Azúcar”. In,
where else? In Los Angeles there’s
somebody named Yari Moré who is Colombian and who is very good. In Puerto Rico, um, there’s another group called
“Concepto Latino”. MP: Uh-huh. CC: And they all have my music. So,
when we go over there, “OK, Yari, look, rehearse,” Pedro tell him. MP: And your relationship with
your husband, Pedro Knight. CC: Mhm. MP: Um, is really interesting. CC: Yes. MP: Because you too are very tight,
you … work very well together and you can see a really incredible chemistry… CC: We’re each other’s accomplices. (They laugh.) He… MP: Could you talk a little about
that. Because he’s also been
a very big influence, I believe, in your, in your artistic career. CC: Well, look, when I started
with the Sonora [Matancera] I was already singing. I met Pedro there. So, what was my reply to Miguel when…? I met him there; that was in 1950; we got married
in 1962. And afterwards, I kept
working even though, because I was not a fixed singer with the Sonora
[Matancera], I was, I’d say, a guest performer… MP: Mhm. CC: Me, I went to see Rogelio
to tell him that I wasn’t contracted by the Sonora [Matancera], my
contract was with Radio Progeso and CMQ. When
I had a contract in Venezuela, I’d leave. When the Sonora [Matancera] had their singers,
Bienvenido, Celio González, I’d leave, I’d come back … when, that time
in Mexico I told you about…. MP: Mhm. CC: I’d go; I’d come back. Then, when Pedro marries me, in ’62, he keeps
working with the Sonora Matancera and me too. But
in [19]65 I got angry at the record company… MP: Uh-huh. CC: …because they weren’t promoting
me. MP: Uh-huh. CC: And I’d record and record,
I had to keep singing “Yerberito”and I said, “Hey, Mister Siegel, I
don’t…,” of course, encouraged by Pedro, “if you don’t promote me,
I don’t want to record anymore here, let’s finish the contract.” And
so I owed him five records. MP: Oh my God … a lot. CC: So
he made me, he made me record them, he made me pay for them. And from there I went to, to Tico… MP: Tico Records. CC: I
came in with Tito Puente. But
then the contracts would come in when I’d record with Tito, and the
contracts would come in for me to perform with Tito Puente. So
Pedro, or I had to go myself alone and Pedro stay with the Sonora [Matancera],
or me not go. So Pedro left
the Sonora [Matancera] to start traveling with me. And that’s when he became my representative
and with some groups, not like today that I have set groups in different
places, let’s say in Venezuela, in Colombia, Pedro would play the trumpet
until one day, a gentleman named Ría Vílez proposed that maybe I should
let Ralph Mercado manage me. And
so yes, in all my contracts throughout the world, when it’s time for
me to travel, Pedro has to come with me; if he doesn’t go, I don’t
go. Even till now, if he doesn’t
go, I don’t go. So, now Pedro isn’t my manager, only my musical
director but he handles the talking … the contracts … he handles the
music, a million things. I only
do the singing now. MP: But
throughout the years, how did the relationship evolve? Because it’s a lot years if you’ve been together
since the fifties. CC: Well,
very nicely, very nicely…. MP: Especially
as it relates to career. CC: It’s
been really good because he, imagine leaving the Sonora [Matancera]… MP: Incredible… CC: To
leave with me. What does he
deserve in return? The best
in the world. Besides me loving him very much, besides how
well we get along, and we’ve never had any problem with respect to
… for the same reasons that we are together. You
know where there would have been a problem? If
I’d gone traveling around and he’d stayed in the United States. You know, with the Sonora [Matancera]. But
ours is a very stable relationship. We’ve
been married for 35 years. It was
our anniversary the other day. We’re
the same sign, and they say that two Libras don’t get along but it’s
not true. Yeah. I
don’t know if it’s because my [sign is] ascendant and his descendant,
but…. (They laugh.) We get along great. There hasn’t been, everything that’s been,
for example, the first two years, when you get married, are the, are
two years first for adjusting, right? Because
it’s not the same when you are alone in your own house than when you
find yourself with another person who maybe has different habits …
who, well for example, who snores. You know how much Pedro used to snore? He doesn’t snore anymore. (MP laughs.) Or maybe I don’t hear it anymore. He’d say, “listen lady, get to sleep fast because
I’m gonna snore.” It’s not bad
to snore because as they say, people snore when they are tired. Now he doesn’t, he hardly snores; I don’t even
hear it, if he snores I don’t hear it. But
these things, no, you have to adapt to these things. Just the first two years, from then on…. MP: That’s
great, how interesting… CC: It’s
all been…. hey, we have incredible communication because that’s how
he, when we got married he told me, “look, whatever you don’t like
about me, tell me. And I’ll also tell you what I don’t like about
you.” And that’s how we’ve been. One thing though: never in public. Suppose
that Pedro, I don’t know, anything, I would never say “listen…,” no. Once we get to the hotel, or home, that’s when… MP: Uh-huh. CC: …we
sort it out, because they stuff you don’t like you don’t forget about. I’m forgetting stuff now (MP laughs) but if
he does something that I don’t like, when I arrive I tell him, “Pedro,
before I forget, look, this, this, this, and this.” When
we do business, for example, when we bought a building in Miami and
it didn’t work out for us, you know because they ripped us off, we
had to return it and everything, but we were both in it together. We were both in together meaning that when
it flopped, he didn’t blame me and I didn’t blame him. MP: Mhm. CC: Another
example, he’ll go buy a bag of sugar and he’ll come and say, “honey,
should I buy it?” “No, Pedro,
don’t buy it because we can’t eat it.” So
he won’t get it. That’s how,
that’s the way we relate. MP: But
that’s really unusual …I n relationships. CC: Unusual,
right? MP: Truly. CC: That
much so, you think? MP: Well,
especially since you have worked together so many years… CC: Yes,
yes… MP: Because
I imagine that that’s the only work that… CC: That
we’ve had, yes… MP: That
you’ve had… CC: Yes… MP: And that’s incredible. CC: Mmm. MP: You
don’t think it’s incredible? CC: Sort
of but look … mmm … I have a friend in Miami who got tired of her husband
and he had money and she didn’t work and he liked to fish and she wouldn’t
go and…. (MP laughs) I just
don’t understand since the best part of life is being together. I
criticize those folks, including my friends too, where she goes on
vacation and afterwards he goes on his own. I
don’t know if it’s me; you get married to be together. I, I don’t get that. Nonetheless, I think that we, the daughters
of Catalina Alfonso, that was my mother’s name, are lucky; my sister,
the eldest, just had her 51st wedding anniversary. MP: Good
Lord. CC: I’ve
got 35 years and my sister Gladys who is in Miami just had her 29th wedding
anniversary. It’s three of us,
and look, 29, Gladys? Didn’t Linda say that she was 28? Mhm. Linda
was born a month later. Linda
is the one who brought the kids last night. MP: Oh
yeah… CC: She’s
my sister, my sister’s daughter, Linda, she’s 28. And my sister has been married for 29 years;
her anniversary was the 13th of September. La Niña, my sister, hers was on the 24th of
April; she just had her 51st wedding anniversary. And Pedro and I had our 35th anniversary
on the 14th. MP: Incredible… CC: So
in other words… I don’t know. MP: And
could you talk a little about your relationship with your sisters when
you were growing up in Cuba. CC: [They
were] Great… MP: And
over the years… CC: Great
because, um, we were four. Gladys,
la Niña, who is the eldest, I’m the second, then comes Bárbaro, who’s
in Cuba, and Gladys, my sister. MP: You
have a brother? CC: A
brother, yes. MP: In
Cuba? CC: In
Cuba, but, um, my family has always loved me a lot. You
know? Because I was very, I was
good. Yes, and on top of it,
on top of it, well, being an artist, imagine, having an artist in the
family… MP: Who’s so famous… CC: They
all adore me. And besides, I
was really good, or I’ve been really good to my family, you understand? As I prospered, how can I tell you? I lent a hand to my family as much as I could. And
so part of the love they have for me, and also gratitude; um, when
I’d travel, I’d travel with a lot of suitcases, everybody there in
the house, with suitcases helping me…. MP: Yeah, sure… CC: And
the suitcases wouldn’t close and they’d sit on top of them. My family is a very good family, you know? My
whole family is great. MP: And
do you ever speak with your brother? CC: Um
… I talk … the thing is, I call my cousin Nenita’s house; it’s really
Nenita who’s become the head of the family. I
have an aunt who is 93 years old and who doesn’t want to die without
seeing me. I’ve brought her five times and so, when I
call Nenita’s house, Bárbaro doesn’t live there, Bárbaro lives in my
house. So I tell Nenita, put
my aunt Ana on, because otherwise, I have to talk to Barbarito, Lourdita,
everybody, even with the little chicken. (MP
laughs.) Yeah, so for example, my 93 year old aunt doesn’t
realize and so somebody gets on the phone, “oh, Aunt Celia…,” I don’t
know who it is, they don’t talk, and listen, long distance phone calls
aren’t that cheap. I prefer
to talk to her not just because of the expenses because one day I called
and honey, the little one got on. Right
then, the line got cut off. And
this was when it was a big effort to call Cuba. And
so the next time I told her, “Ana, when I call you, first speak with
me and then put whoever you want on,” because I wasn’t able to talk
to her, you know? So imagine,
93 years old, she calls, “Nenita, how’s the little chicken?” (They
laugh.) “And yeah…” Anyway,
Nenita told her, “he’s around somewhere.” And they’d already eaten him. Because, imagine…. (They laugh.) MP: And
your… CC: Yes… MP: Has
your brother ever come to visit you here? CC: Yeah,
I brought him. I brought him,
I’d say, in around [19]94. I
brought him with my cousin Nenita. Because
now, when I bring them, when I can bring them, I bring them in pairs
… for example. MP: And
it was his first time. CC: For
Bárbaro, yes. MP: And
how was it CC: He
loved it. “I’ll be back!” [he
said] when he left, “I’ll be back.” MP: How
long since you’d seen him? CC: Since
I’d seen him? Well, I left in 1960 and I brought him in 1994. Imagine. MP: But
it had to have been a very emotional moment. CC: Very nice. They arrived, I wasn’t in New York. Gladys, my sister, was still there. And they arrived before I did … but it was
really lovely. And that aunt
that I was telling you about, I’ve brought her five, five times. I’m bringing her through Mexico because it’s
very … more difficult to come to the United States, to see if I can
see her for at least a month, like I told her. MP: And
are you going to bring your brother again? CC: No, darlin’, no. It’s costing a lot of work. And, and I can’t make myself crazy over it. Remember
that there are some… MP: Yes… CC: …treaties
and he’s already seen me and I’ve seen him… MP: And
how long was he here? CC: Um,
six months. MP: Wow,
a long time. CC: Yes. In
this country they’ll give you six months. MP: Half
a year… CC: Yes. They
give him six months, Cuba gives him one month, so every, every time
you have to pay in order for them to extend the… MP: And
he’d never come before? CC: Never. MP: So,
it had to have been an incredible experience for him. CC: Yes,
he came to Washington and everything. MP: How
incredible… CC: Yes… MP: Well,
Celia I really appreciate this… CC: OK… MP: That
we, um, that we were able to talk… CC: Yes… MP: And
that we were able to converse, and well, thank you very much. CC: So
now you have some translating to do, right? MP: Yes. (They
laugh.) |
